Malcolm Dick
I’D like to relate to you a true story (of ‘Brexit’ origin…no surprises there) which has possibly damaged a friendship for good; no surprises again perhaps?
The names in the story are ficticious.
Two guys, one British the other Spanish, bump into each other in a bar. They’ve been friends for a few years, shared meals, music, drinks and chats into the night on many occasions. Let’s call them Pablo and Paul.
Pablo: “Have you seen what was said on the news today?” Pablo is looking indignant.
Paul: “No.” with a slightly apologetic air, sensing raised hackles.
Pablo: “A British government minister has said that if there are any Europeans left in the UK once Britain is out of the union they’ll be… in the River Thames.” Pablo has two hands out in front of him as if to hold someone upside down by the ankles, with an up and down motion to simulate dunking or dropping in the water. Paul is stunned by the claim and barely responds, sensing the need to go very carefully. Paul’s facial expression is enough to indicate disbelief and this triggers a repeat of the claim… more forcefully this time.
Paul: “That doesn’t sound right” barely shaking his head and maintaining an expression of open mindedness in the absence of evidence. Pablo now repeats the claim a third time and Paul feels compelled to follow his instinct and reply.
Paul: “Pablo that’s impossible” but still keeping his response low key. All the while, Paul is aware that people roundabout could be listening and taking this in. Pablo now pulls out his phone and calls up the news article to prove his point. Paul scans the article again and again and can find no evidence of Pablo’s claim. On handing back the phone, Paul asks,
Paul: “The claim you’re making… where did you get it from?” Pablo adjusts his stance abruptly and gestures toward the news article as if it needed no further explanation.
Paul: “But the words you used, where did you get them?” Pablo again indicates the news article.
Paul: “No, but the actual words… River Thames etc…” and Paul repeats the ‘dunking’ motion. Pablo now, with the tiniest hint of reluctance but still with indignation, admits that they’re his words.
Paul retreats, incredulous.
So what actually happened?
Pablo is an intelligent guy, perhaps given to a modicum of exageration now and again but all the same, a clever guy.
Well, after the exchange, Paul studied the news article again and felt he had an explanation.
The article in question was Amber Rudd’s speech where reference was made to companies that might be using disproportionate numbers of foreign workers and that she intended to uncover them. Now, the intentions or otherwise of Amber Rudd are not the subject of this article.
The key point is that in that particular article, the term used to mean ‘uncovering’ of such companies, was, ‘to flush out’. Pablo knows one or two words of English but little more.
In his anger, he has very likely made a brief internet search for the word ‘flush’ and (you’ve guessed it) been presented with the toilet scenario or perhaps purging with flowing water.
Furthermore, he appears to have confused the issue further by treating the ‘flushing’ process as being applied to the foreign workers as opposed to the employers. It’s easy to imagine how this would have fuelled his anger and of course, the rest, as he admitted, he made up himself.
The Brexit issue continues to divide and anger, not to mention being riddled with lies, twisted truths, decontextualisations and of course… misinterpretations.
The story above, tiny as it is, is an important reminder of the damage that can be done by propogating inaccurate uninformed comments, especially when emotions are running high and embellishment of the ‘facts’ is almost a probability.
There has been no further dialogue between Pablo and Paul.
Pablo may have been confused by the particulars of Rudd’s statement. but he was entitled to be incensed by her stupid intentions. (now abandoned of course, as she should be)
Paul, knowing how daft his country has become, should have been more tolerant. They would still be buddies if he was more perceptive.
what it is not a misinterpretation, is that racist hate crime is out of control in the uk after brexit.
with “leaders” like johnson, farage and company, well, no surprises there.
If you didn’t wildly exaggerate Pablo, you might hit on some truths. Yes, hate-crime HAS increased directly due to Brexit. But it’s NOT out of control.
The goons you mention are far from being “leaders”. Calm down and do some research. Your bile would be far more effective with greater accuracy. As it, is you cut an absurd figure.
When a terribly disfigured British soldier – Falkland Campaign went for a holiday in Spain he was spat at. Just what kind of scum would do that.
Further if a Brit was to post like this cabron on a Spanish language forum he would be abused by all and he would be most definately banned
The British voted for Brexit, one of the reasons being ordered around by Germans and here is a parallel : in 1939/1940 Germany transferred thousands and thousands of non jews (in addition to jews) around Europe, in 2015/2016 Germany is doing the same with immigrants. Now thatBrexit is going through the threats from Germany against the Brits are reaching previously unheard of levels, same parallels again.
Absurd comparison about Nazi Germany, Howard. Germany opened the door to immigrants in 2016 with only good intentions (however naive it was later judged). Intent is the issue, and it was quite different than 1939/40. If you want to go back to 1939, breaking up the EU will be a very good start. Btw, not all of the British voted for Brexit. Many did not vote, and many could not vote, for a variety of different reasons.
Fred, I believe Merkel stated at the time that due to Germany’s aging population immigrants were welcomed.
Carlos, yes, so we can both agree that the immigrants were welcomed.
Phew, at least we agree on something Fred.
The frau welcomed the Syrian refugees because 1. they are virtually all middle class, well educated and many speak at least one foreign language and they had the money to flee, the poor working class had no chance at all.
Did the frau offer to take some of the thousands of economic migrants camped at Calais – of course not, they are uneducated sub- Saharans with no skills, only looking for an easy life away form their countries with exploding populations – there was sod all altruism in her arrogant UDI stance – get real Fred.
Merkel is a capitalist and her concern is not for Germany but for capitalism today and sod tomorrow. What happens when robotisation takes over – the same as has happened in Belgium and France, ghettos ful of young men with no prospect of work ever.
Europe does not need any immigration whatsoever we need falling populations and rapidly. Easy, just do away with so many parasitic occupations that feed upon the economic produce of ordinary people. Hence you see, day after day the vitriolic articles by arrogant metros whose cushy lives would come to an end with a real audit of societies needs. The Germans, Spanish and Italians are to be applauded for their low birthrates, just another example of where the EU should be championing and enforcing low birth rates, if it was’nt just a big business organisation, remember – falling markets means the disintegration of Anglo-Saxon capitalism.
What is the distinguishing feature of A/S capitalism – greed. Any one who thinks that you can have a healthy constructive society without a profit motive is away with the fairies but there is a huge difference between a healthy profit and greed. Eg. when the Euro was introduced at the behest of German industry the EU should have dictated that no profiteering would be allowed – and pigs will fly. Right across the EU prices increased by an average of 15% – again confirming that the EU has no interest whatsoever in the ordinary European.
Stuart, there is some truth in what you say, but it is depressing to see only the worst in world leaders. Only 21% of the refugees in Germany are considered skilled workers and are pursuing employment, which is rather different to your statement that they are “all middle class, well educated”. Also, one in three of all refugees in Germany are also unaccompanied minors (so much for the well-used argument “where are the children?”). Only 30,000 Syrians have gained employment in Germany so far; the majority are still without work
As for the Calais migrants, well there is already an agreement between the UK and France on this, so I don’t see Germany intervening there. Of course, that deal may come to an abrupt end if Hollande leaves, and Dover may end up becoming the new front line. François Fillon has already said the Le Touqet agreement “needs looking at again”.
Finally about the UK needing immigration, the Fincancial Times explained the issue very well, and this was even before the referendum took place: https://www.ft.com/content/fef1b610-42a0-11e6-b22f-79eb4891c97d
B/s arguments Fred. The FT is a paper of capital – I state again Anglo-Saxon capitalism cannot survive in falling markets, that is not an opinion but an economic fact. You pointedly hav’nt addressed the salient point in my post that – there are many professions that are entirely parasitic – why not, come to that what exactly is your profession.
Those that support immigration are mostly those who are excess to a changing, more rational society. There is’nt a single society anywhere in the world that would’nt benefit enormously from drastically reduced populations, again this is’nt an opinion but a stone cold fact – those that oppose reduced populations are always the ones who have the most to lose – religious and political control freaks and the greedy.
Stuart, you quoted from the FT in many previous threads, yet you immediately dismiss what it says when it disagrees with you lol. The term “parasitic profession” is subjective in itself. Who will judge what is a parasitic profession and what isn’t? You? How will law and order work? Are judges not needed? Aren’t lawyers needed? They must surely be included in your list of parasitic professions? Now that is pure B/S, unless you can tell us what system is replacing all of this? Population is at the root of the world’s most serious problems, agreed. Do tell us how this will controlled and enforced.
Because old, worn-out workers need pensions to survive, new, fresh workers will be needed to pay for them. Without the young, the old will perish. If new births are restricted (as is happening in Northern Europe) then fresh blood will be essential, or Soylent Green may be the alternative.
Stefanjo could you explain when these young people you mention reach being old and worn out workers who will replace them for their old age pension. Not sure of your age but if you are a pensioner who’s paying towards your pension. As for Soylent green it has been and still being carried out in some parts of the World, it’s called cannibalism.
We need slightly more than two births per woman I believe to keep the population constant and to maintain the whole pension system. (Mind you as someone mentioned robots – werent we all supposed to be getting more leisure time now that there is more production by robots ?!?)
Both Fred and Aunt Sally cannot find the courage to address the simple question is a particular trade or profession a positive for society or parasitic.
Fred, the FT is a newspaper of capital, it often has articles that are totally fact based, which is why I read it and use it to formulate investment strategies. It does’nt mean I have to agree with it’s support for big business and immigration is the tol of big business as is the infamous free movement of capital and labour.
You still hav’nt revealed just what your profession is – obviously you have something to hide – I can see a b/s evasion coming from miles away.
Yes the professions you mention are entirely parasitic and grossly over paid, you forgot to mention the political whores. Who will judge, you don’t really need to ask that question – the people, you know the suckers who hav’nt got access to tax havens or vermin called tax avoidance accountants.
Population control what the Chinese used very successfully – so successful was this policy that there are today 300 million less Chinese.
Aunt Sally as usual comes up with no answer at all mouthing the useless Labour party theoretical nonsense. Keir Starmer a useless CPS boss who allowed so many injustices to happen on his watch has said that he wants the 3 million EU workers to be guaranteed to remain in the UK – you moron, you have just put the final nail in the Labour party coffin – your job moron is to protect the British working class and with that statement you have just urinated on all of them.
Stuart, if you could define what those professions are, in totality, then I can tell you if I am in one, or not. I know for a fact that my work has helped many tens of thousands of people, across the world, so I very much doubt it is “parasitic”. But of course we are all parasites to a certain extent in the current system, but I notice you evaded answering just what system is going to replace the current one. And so the people are going to judge other people? This is quite ridiculous, and you know it Stuart. What you talk of is anarchy, and not the pure anarchy where civilization works for the good of all (which is probably thousands of years away, if it’s even attainable). Imagine what would happen if people judged other people without law or rules – total chaos. If we didn’t have judges or lawyers, someone will just take on those roles eventually, and it will be a person with power and a lot of followers, and a big army, so even more wars. Back to square one. When you accuse someone of B/S you should have a proper argument in place first, and you don’t on this occasion.
As for population control, this will doubtless become mandatory in the West and as we see climate change causing more and more massive disasters. It’s all coming down the road.
Hilarious Stuart, hates big business and it’s parasitic ways. but has “investment strategies” in those very businesses. The ones that make fortunes from cheap labour, dodgy capital movements, hog-like bosses and planet-raping strategies. No doubt Mr. Chuckles will protest that he only invests in whiter-than-white enterprises, but it’s all capitalism, red in tooth and claw.
He’s applauded the mistake (now cancelled quietly) of Chinese birth control, but refuses to address the ridiculous lop-sided result, where there’s a massive imbalance of the sexes, leaving millions of “Little Princes” lacking future brides. Electronic scans and abortion goes hand-in-hand with birth control. Most people want boys. So what, as putative Master of the Universe, do you propose to do about that sunshine?
The vote was close for Brexit or Remain – and in fact a huge number didnt vote – or couldnt. Many voted on a whim – I have met a few now – and most regret their vote (for Leave) … but there are so many issues on either side. Its far too complicated even for a “fan” of politics like me. And anyone who is fully for Remain or Brexit does not really understand the issues – the same happened in the Scottish Referendum.
As for the original article the Spanish man is right. There is definitely bad intention behind the phrase “to flush out”. Its an antagonistic phrase. A better way to have said the whole idea was “we will make a considered and calm review of ….” etc etc