Rob Horgan
THE European refugee crisis has increased the terror threat to Spain, according to the country’s top politicians.
Foreign minister Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo and interior minister Jorge Fernandez Diaz have both spoken out about their concerns.
Diaz has called for tighter controls to prevent ISIS members infiltrating the ‘avalanche’ of refugees arriving in Europe from Syria.
While Garcia-Margallo has warned the influx of refugees ‘threaten to tarnish Europe’s reputation’.
“The vast majority are refugees fleeing war and terror, but we can’t forget terrorist groups are present there and these barbarians have shown that they are capable of carrying out their threats,” Interior Minister Jorge Fernandez Diaz said.
“While Spain will not refuse anyone the right to asylum, how can we be sure that, there are not terrorists among this avalanche of people.”
I have to agree with them, it is more or less what I said in my post on the other story. You can’t be too careful and that is why thorough checks must be carried out.
Garcia-Margallo is correct for a change. Whilst we want to see genuine asylum seekers helped, thiese massive influxes might be looked back at in history as the biggest mistakes ever made to national security. In the long-term the only way asylum seekers can be properly helped is to stabilise their own countries. Can anyone see these first waves of people ever going back? It’s highly unlikely. Countries will soon have to close borders as there is no open door policy forever. Things will then get very messy indeed.
Fred, so Nigel Farage was correct all the time, yet he was ridiculed. For 10 years or so he battled for the UK and although to achieve his goal of border control the only way at the time was to leave the EU, but now all the other countries are considering his ridiculed proposal of border control. I hope we remain in the EU for personal reasons but if I was living back in the UK he would be getting my vote and all my voting years I had voted for a Conservative government.
Jacko well said.
How may “thorough checks” be carried out in a situation of absolute chaos? Have you taken note of the numbers Jane?
It’s a genuine concern. All refuges need to be vetted. We need to be vigilant about Trojan horse attacks.
I agree Jane, the checking system needs to be as thorough as possible in all EU countries but even if checks are put in place countries are just waving them through to another country. It’s not up to Jane to make a note of numbers Stefanjo!
What I think should be considered is to allow temporary refuge and if their own countries settle down, Dictators leave, they should be helped to repatriate, but as Fred says they won’t leave, they would have to be made to leave if they could then all be found.
Fred’s last 2 sentences will happen.
The UK and America have a lot to answer for as it is their decisions in Iraq and Afghanistan have caused most of te problems we now have. We went into Iraq saying “We are here to help you” and more have died then ever did under Saddam. Now we are faced with the consequences of the mind set that the UK and America always know best.
Mike: If Jane wants to advocate “thorough checks” then indeed she needs to be aware of the overwhelming numbers of refugees who are pouring into Europe. They initially land in places like Lesbos and other Greek islands that would collapse if these people did not move on. Turkey, where huge numbers arrive, have no means or responsibility for scrutinising them, so on they travel. Northwards.
Just where and what shape should these “temporary refuges” be? Who will pay?
Borders are impossible to close. It isn’t as though everybody has a big gate that they can shut. Tens of thousands of people are inexorably running from war and famine towards what they see as safety in our back yards. We cannot simply wish this thing away, it has to be dealt with.
So, will it be concentration camps and mass slaughter, or absorption? One other small consideration, America is a big country with huge resources and bears a great responsibility for the situation Europe finds itself in. (Iraq, Afghanistan, drone strikes all over the Middle East). Perhaps ships with say, a few thousand lost souls “yearning to be free” could be shipped over to the tender care of Uncle Sam? Oh and of course Israel has a great record of taking in people running from persecution. Perhaps they could burnish their credentials for E.U. membership by taking some? Although it would be something of a circuitous route for the Palestinians fleeing Gaza.
Well concentration camps are not new to the British, first to introduce it, and as my son said many years ago, war, famine and disease does have it’s merits.
Stefanjo your reply is rather long winded and not the point. Temporary refuge is just that, process migrants, know where their accomodation is, keep tabs on them, repatriate as soon as their countries can take them.
Jane appears to be aware of numbers hence her concerns.
Who will pay, it will be taxpayers unfortunately?!
We are paying the price of Blair and co.
Russia could take millions!
Once again Mike. Where will these “temporary refuges” be? Who will police them? Suppose their countries are never in a shape for them to return? (very likely). What will happen as they keep coming? (very likely). There are no temporary fixes in this situation, other answers need to be found.
Jane, which armies should these “young fit men” join? Who should they fight? What with?
In the same way these desperate people cross borders as though they don’t exist, why would they not simply walk into Spain via France? How then to “process” them? Here’s an idea, the many abandoned villages in Spain could be revived by a people hard-up enough to live on subsistence farming done in a co-operative manner. A chap called Sanchez Gordillo could show them how to do it. Marinaleda would be a great example.
Jacko, the main thrust of what Farage was talking about concerned immigration checks between mostly EU states, and was not primarily dealing with this new wave of displaced people from war-torn countries. Certainly the immigration pattern has now changed and is much more complex and far-reaching. At the end of the day, no country can have take unlimited immigrants, be they from EU member states, or from places like Syria and Iraq, so eventually the borders will have to be closed and stricter controls brought in. I think Farage, mad as his party is, did have some valid points on immigration and stricter immigration policy will now be inevitable. Tough times ahead.
My reference to thorough checking was aimed at Spain and the UK who are in a position to make it a condition for accepting migrants. We are taking migrants from the camp we have financed so the vetting process should be achievable because they are not on the move. Spain could and should try to either take migrants from one of our UK funded temporary refuges that Mike referred to or set up a processing centre.
It is vital to get this right and not just give up because it’s too difficult. Economic migrants and ISIS sympathisers must be separated from ISIS victims and genuine refugees and if it takes a long time, tough.
Many of these blokes are well fed, young and fit snd should be fighting for their country not running away.
Fred, i’m quite aware of his policy but his main thrust was not just about immigration and if border controls had been in place when he first suggested there would not have been the 300,000 that we know of in the UK. This would have also been a benefit to the current refugee problems which would have allowed a greater amount to be accepted.
Jacko, you are talking with the beauty of hindsight. Who knew about that these en-masse migrations would occur on this scale and at this time?
We’ve been too keen, time and time again, to bomb and destablise countries in the ME – Libya is a recent example, and we see that Mr Cameron is keen to step up attacks in Syria (the US is already active there). This is not a party issue – we know what Blair got up to – but we need to stop doing this. As it is it could be a 100 years before the ME stabilises and we will have to deal with refugee movements during that time. Of course other countries interfere too, but we need to wean ourselves off ME oil and stop attacking places, not least as things rebound on us.
Stefanjo. A good write up and like most things the horse has bolted. This would be a good opportunity for the British government who will be allowing 4,000 refugees into the UK per year to fully scrutinize each and every person to see if they are genuine refugees, BUT in the country that they have embarked into and NOT in the UK, (due to the human rights brigade). Once entered into the UK they could be housed in tents or disused army barracks seeing as we are cutting back to 50,000 soldiers and should have sufficient accommodations and not into the hands of landlord.
Stef I could go on and on about no free rides etc, money and food at survival rate, paid for by the generosity of the British tax payer, lucky in having a roof over their heads and living in safety and much much more. Many things to sort out. One big headache. Or we could simply back track and say, sorry mate, change of mind and heart, must think of the British people first. we are coming out of the EU. I hope you get my jest.
P.S Farage is once again correct when he blames Merkel regarding the current problem of the refugees by announcing an open door policy to Germany which has encouraged further”swarms” of extra refugees to seek a life in Europe and it won’t stop. It’s not from the goodness of her heart that she offered an open door to Germany as she has admitted Germany needs extra people to replace the dwindling birth rate and of the ageing population.
Cameron in his quest to please her in the hope of a favorable “nod” regarding certain demands he is seeking to remain in the EU has now increased the number of refugees from an original 10,000 to 20,000. Cameron is a weakling for not standing up for the rights of the British people and should demand and not beg, and if his demands are not met it should return to a straight “YES and “NO” as this new “Wording” still leaves the door open to a certain extent. In another 4/5 years Cameron will not be here as PM and like Blair will leave Britain in a tormented state and if Labor happens to become the next Government then God help Britain. Possibly I won’t be here enjoying the life style and the sunshine of Spain but am concerned for future generation of the British people.
Fred, i’m surprised at your reply. Preparation is hindsight and if Farage had got his way regarding border control it would have covered all forms of controlling British borders, Legal, not legal, criminals and including refugees crossing a border, not only current but prior. Border controls is what it means in all it’s forms, don’t you get it.
Perhaps you can now see the chaotic problem of not having hindsight as being remonstrated by the E.U
There are some interesting comments on here but I think the general consensus is extreme caution is needed. Like the article states, this is a very serious security threat to Spain and the rest of Europe and you ignore it at your peril. It is a known fact that ISIS are sending people disguised as refugees in an effort to get a foothold in Europe. All EU member states must have a stringent vetting process to root out the infiltrators and if that means keeping people in holding centres then so be it. These people will not be on the move forever because they want the necessary papers and that is when they need to be rigorously checked. What is the alternative? You can’t just swing the door open and let everyone in.
Stefanjo, I doubt too many of these migrants will want to live in a communist town on subsistence money, most Spaniards don’t so why should they? Take a closer look at them, they are mainly well dressed young men (clock the fashion) with attitude and smart phones and are probably more interested in bling. Tens of thousands have managed to mobilise themselves and pay huge sums of money (US dollars in most cases) to people traffickers when many (not all) could have tooled themselves up instead and stayed at home to fight for their country. Had these millions of displaced people, women included, mobilised themselves and taken up arms, help from elsewhere would have been forthcoming. From what I have seen, they seem pretty up for it and don’t appear to be frightened of people in authority.
I’m not saying this is an easy situation for anyone but Europe must not put itself at risk.
Jane, these folk are not a homogeneous whole. They come from many countries. I repeat, what army should they all join? Who do they fight? What with?
“Holding centres”? That is another way of saying concentration camps. More money, more security problems. Thousands of idle mouths to be fed. This thing can’t be contained, but needs to be urgently dealt with. The internet poses a greater challenge than any “Jihadi Johns” slipping in on the backs of refugees. (Try and spot the disabled, the old, the women, children and babies in among your “fit young men”)
Cameron, by the way, despite your espousal of his grand plan, hasn’t got a clue.
Jacko, hindsight and preparation are not really the same thing. We can only look back with hindsight when we didn’t know something then, that we now do in the present. Bit of a catch-22 that one. If only we hadn’t invaded the middle east, perhaps we would not have so many enemies now eh? How would we gave prepared for that? Not quite so simple.
Fred I think your confusing the two words. Now lets see, how can I explain. It’s like bolting the door before the horse escapes, as in border control and as in a preparation, or thinking, blast, if I had bolted the door the horse would not have escaped, as in hindsight.
Lets just say we disagree on this matter.
Jacko, with respect I am not confusing the words. Neither of is incorrect. Even if we did make plans years ago for immigration, we could still look back in hindsight on those plans. The two words are mutually exclusive; there is always hindsight – it is just a word to reference to the past, or “what could have been”. Hindsight is a cruel thing, one has to be a fortune teller to benefit from it.
Fred, there we go. Latest news. EU could give away passports to attract MORE immigrants in plans which would grant hundreds of thousands access to the UK. So lets change hindsight to fact.
A sobering thought today, on Yahoo it says the UK arrested 299 terrorist suspects in the year to march 2015 which was well up on previous year. This is before 1000’s more migrants come in. The same must go for EU countries in general, the EU is playing into the hands of Isis who openly say they will use migrant routes to infiltrate. No-one could know who are fanatics masquerading as persecuted migrants, and no-one knows who were economic migrants who’ve thrown their passports away.
The EU will regret this mass immigration within a few years!
UKIP was always right…………..most people just would not admit it!!!!
Spot on comment Mike. This bleeding heart stuff is dangerous and putting everyone at risk.
Stefanjo, we will have to agree to disagree on this.
Bleeding hearts don’t enter in to it. The situation is upon us and growing. The tide will not be stemmed by talk of holding centres, border blocks or any other right-wing wishful thinking. The only place that can physically hold back these people is Britain, due to being an island and even that is only 21 miles from the continent. Greater barriers than that have been crossed already. 800.000 lost souls will be in Germany alone. Each one soon to be legally entitled to move anywhere in the EU.
Speaking of “immigrants” “and immigration” puts a false image out. They are refugees, fleeing war, pestilence and famine. Most of them would rather stay put but can’t, otherwise they would die.
What would you do in their circumstance?
You still find it impossible to answer my questions Jane, because you pose a false premise. Going on about what SHOULD have been done in the past is futile. The question is what should be done NOW? One thing is certain, Cameron’s plans for more bombing and war isn’t going to make even a dent in the problem.
Fred, I know the difference between preparation and hindsight. Took a lot of time preparing a contract and in hindsight done the job too cheaply. lol
You sometimes miss points stefanjo, they are not ALL refugees as you seem to think, 1000’s are economic migrants who it’s generally known have flung their passports away to pretend they are Syrian. If so many speak Arabic even with dialects but have no passports who can tell a genuine refugee from a free loader. Isis are using these easy routes and many Nigerians and other West Africans are also crossing into Europe. If you really think they are all Syrians etc escaping persecution then you’re wrong!
Some Arab countries have refugee camps but many such as Saudi appear to do diddly squat to ease the situation, UK, especially England is so over-populated per sq km, Russia offers no help yet is vast, and sensible Norway appears to stay out of the equation.
Do you know what “not a homogeneous whole” means Mike?
There’s a number of comments on here, who I assume actually live in Spain in order to dislike it so much, that have English sounding names so presumably are living here via freedom of entry across the EU.
Just saying………! :)
dref…..i live in spain, pay in to the system,….these migrants dont!!!
Give these refugees a chance and they will do the same as you pg.
These same issues are growing bigger and much more violent in Greece where immigrants have become overly aggressive to home owners and created looting and assaults against the one’s that welcomed them in. One gang call themselves the Bad Ass Syrian Crips. This will not be an isolated incident..this is for sure. I read of similar attacks in Germany…
Well, Guemes, basically the blame should be placed at the door steps of Germany who had created this mess in the first place by offering an open door policy, and I might add, for not learning the lesson that struck has the UK. Now they have closed the door, overwhelmed, leaving thousands of people stranded in other countries and trying to pass people onto the rest of Europe, and it will get worse. What is now going to happen with all these thousands of stranded people. Perhaps more attention should have been given to Farage at the time regarding border controls, and as you say crime will increase as people have got to eat.