Karl Smallman
THE SPANISH ambassador to the UK, Federico Trillo, has been summoned to the Foreign Office following the latest incursion by a Spanish ship into British territorial waters off Gibraltar.
Europe Minister David Lidington said the activities of the Spanish state research ship – Angeles Alvariño – and its accompanying Guardia Civil vessel yesterday were not only “unlawful” but also dangerous.
Mr Lidington said: “According to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, the waters around Gibraltar are indisputably British territorial waters, under United Kingdom sovereignty, in which only the United Kingdom has the right to exercise jurisdiction.
“Her Majesty’s Government takes a grave view of any attempt by Spain to exert authority or control within British Gibraltar territorial waters and considers such incursions as a violation of our sovereignty.
“I strongly condemn this provocative incursion and urge the Spanish government to ensure that it is not repeated.
“Her Majesty’s Government will continue to take whatever action we consider necessary to uphold British sovereignty and the interests of Gibraltar, its people, its security and economy.”
This latest development adds to the already complicated relationship between Britain and Spain, after the sinking of concrete blocks last year for Gibraltar’s artificial reef project.
Spain complained that these blocks would cause problems for their fishing industry, and shortly afterwards imposed strict controls at the border with Gibraltar.
Britain and Gibraltar argued that these checks were politically motivated but the European Commission ruled that the border checks had not infringed any European law.
Britain lodged a previous formal complaint to Spanish authorities in November last year, after a diplomatic bag was opened by police at the border with Gibraltar.
The British Foreign Office said at the time that diplomatic bags were ‘inviolable’, and to open one was a ‘serious infringement’ of the Vienna Convention on diplomatic relations.
Oh dear , here we go again , the banana republic up to its diversionary tactics again to divert attention away from its own domestic self inflicted policies .
The Spanish claim that Gibraltar has no territorial waters because the Treaty of Utrecht did not specify any. Spain made statements and declarations to this effect when signing UNCLOS.
However, the following UN ICJ judgment is relevant – The ICJ Delimitation Judgment between Romania and Ukraine of 3 February 2009. On page 78, para 42, the ICJ stated, ‘Finally regarding Romania’s declaration, quoted in para 35 above, the Court observes that under 310 of UNCLOS, a State is not precluded from making statements and declarations when signing, ratifying or acceding to the Convention, provided that these do not purport to exclude or modify the legal effect of the provisions of UNCLOS as interpreted in its jurisprudence. Romania’s declaration as such has no bearing on the Court’s interpretation.’ (Romania had made declarations on signature and ratifying UNCLOS in respect of fishing, security and uninhabited islands).
Britain is letting in planeloads of persecuted Nigerian and Ugandans with their wives and children.
Gibraltarians are going bananas about a boatload of scientists (that like too go home in the evening) entering their waters.
Grow up Gibraltar.
In December 2010, Jose Antonis de Yturriga, the former Spanish Ambassador of Iraq, Ireland and Russia said, ‘The Spanish position on the issue of Gibraltar’s territorial waters was weak and lacked any legal basis.’
The upping of the tempo once again suggests that “all is not well in the Kingdom of Denmark”.
We will have to wait and see in the next few days why Gibraltar has once again become this focus of attention.
Surely Spanish politicians have greater problems to worry about than this little rock.
At one time, I suppose, it could be regarded as a unifying factor but divisions are now so wide within Spain that not even the Gibraltar issue will unite its people as they have greater, more pressing problems facing them. Still, the failing PP, I suppose still have to try
Reading leading articles in the popular Spanish press, “el caso Barcenas” has ,once again, reared its head.
Question is, how, in a modern democracy, can a political party govern when it is so obviously implicated in a huge corruption case?
This surpasses Italy and Berluscione. At least he enjoyed himself in his “bunga bunga” parties.
The scientists on the vessel in question were trying to determine the levels of contamination in the waters around the rock. They were following the mandate given to them by the European Union which will be to the benefit of all communities, including Gibraltar.
Thankfully, the Guardia Civil was standing by to provide much needed security.
@BritBob
Gibraltar is not a State it is a British colony which according to the UN is in the process of decolonisation.
Spain has never recognised UK sovereignty over anything other than the waters of the port of Gibraltar.
This is the reason why the waters of the port are specifically excluded from the European Commission approved Spanish nature site which otherwise covers the entirety of the so called British Gibraltar Territorial Waters.
Significantly, the European Court of Justice has dismissed two separate challenges by the UK to the establishment of the Spanish administered nature site.
Spain made the following reservation on signing the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea in 1984:
‘The Spanish Government, upon signing this Convention, declares that this act cannot be interpreted as recognition of any rights or situations relating to the maritime spaces of Gibraltar which are not included in article 10 of the Treaty of Utrecht of 13 July 1713 between the Spanish and British Crowns. The Spanish Government also considers that Resolution III of the Third United Nations Conference on the Law of the Sea is not applicable in the case of the Colony of Gibraltar, which is undergoing a decolonization process in which only the relevant resolutions adopted by the United Nations General Assembly apply.
When Rajoy and his francophiles get removed from power, and a more moderate government is returned to power, then, perhaps, tripartite talks will recommence, and we will see an end to this ridiculous state of affairs.
FurtherBeyond, once again writing pure nonsense.
The UK is a state and is recognised as the Administering Power for Gibraltar by the UN. The UK is totally within its rights to claim a territorial sea for Gibraltar under UNCLOS. Other non-British territories on the UN list of NSGTs have the right to territorial seas and Gibraltar is not specifically excluded.
As anyone who cares to read through the entirety of UNCLOS will know, reservations entered upon ratification do not alter the terms of UNCLOS. The Spanish reservation has not legal effect.
The ECJ’s findings were not significant because firstly the ECJ does not have jurisdiction in matters of sovereignty, only the ICJ does, the ECJ simply dismissed as inadmissable the British request to partially annul the directive bringing the Spanish SCI into being. The ECJ heard no case and made no judgement about the sovereignty of the waters.
The sad thing for me is that the Spanish people and their supporters actually believe the propaganda. Checking water pollution, scientists, Spanish waters….oh dear!
I really thought in this day and age that brainwashing in supposed non-third World countries like sPAIN would be a thing of the past.
The main thing though is that virtually the only people getting really hurt by this are their own. But then again they probably don’t call the Linenses their own as they are not majority Francoists.
When a populous are frightened or even banned from demonstrating it’s time to call a spade a spade and stop pretending you are a democracy.
Worse still they haven’t the balls to invade like the Russians. Instead they just lie on the floor kicking their legs in the air shouting that its not fair. Pathetic excuse for a people.
According to article 15 of UNCLOS the “historic title” of Spain to all the waters outside those of the Gibraltar port itself (art. 10 Utrecht) implies a variance to the general rule.
“http://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part2.htm”
The British ambassador in Madrid, Simon Manley, has been summoned this morning to the Spanish Foreign Affairs Ministry to be rapped on the knuckles because of this serious incident which, anyway, happened 3,5 miles South of Europa Point, outside of the limits of the waters which, without any right, Britain claims as their own.
It seems that Britain is looking for a fight in order to distract its people of things like the referendum in Scotland.
One looks on in amazement and wonders. What a load of codswallop “and yes I have looked it up and all it means in nonsense” so no need to ruffle any old Dodo’s feathers – or didn’t it have any feathers in the first place?”) Anyway, it is clear, from reading the Spanish Press and listening to non-PP party communicators – that the Popular Party is not at all Popular as its name implies and every day one hears of more and more unrest from the unfortunate citizens of this beautiful country who are not to blame for the shortcomings of those that are supposed to govern them as per their manifesto and then forgot the minute they got in. When a supposed diplomat, Mayor of Algeciras, opposite Gib, apparently in a private capacity, goes off to twin his town to the place in Argentina from whence the invasion of the Falklands was launched, without having made it official, or having consulted his own constituents, or the opposition, knowing full well that this is a provocation to UK , Gibraltar and to those families who lost sons and daughters. brothers, husbands and fathers in recovering those British Islands, then one has to realise that indeed all is not as it should be in the Kingdom of Spain. Add to that revelations, new or not, of some murky goings on during the attempted coup d’état, which have been unveiled in a book published today by a Spanish journalist and which is further destabilising the country, and one could then begin to envisage the reasons why Gibraltar and its British Territorial waters may have suddenly become the raison d’etre of this Spanish government. No longer are the few blocks laid to protect the scarred seabed of a small part of Gibraltar’s waters from the continuous raking of one fisherman the issue, now its sample taking, as if they did not have enough sea water around their own shores to sample. Anything to divert attention from the real pus in the growing boil of civil unrest in Spain.
@olisipo
Oh dear. Can’t you have a personal thought?
Are you suggesting Britain asked Spain to send the boat in so it could protest thereby distracting from the Scottish independence “problem”. Really?
You are either blinkered or stupid and I don’t think it’s the latter. Maybe stupidly blinkered?
@Lunablue
Are you suggesting that the continuous aggressions of the Royal Navy to Spanish ships are a mere coincidence?
Poor Cameron needs this kind of tactics to divert his people’s attention from things so important as Scotland, the upsurge of UKIP, etc.
Please try to use a polite vocabulary henceforward.
@mariposa (aka olisipo)
I rest my case. Brainwashed or bigoted! So sad and I am being serious.
Olisipo
As you can see its taken up all of the UK’s press, all the headlines I think Not. On the other hand it has swamped the Spanish Press.
UK ships do not go into Spanish territorial waters to pick up samples, they do not go into Spanish waters to rake or net with illegal nets.
UK does not complain how many nuclear powered ships go into ROTA or anywhere else in Spain.
UK is, if not the oldest democracy in the world certainly one of the oldest and knows full well how to convince its citizens without threats of force or trying to curb their rights to be what they want to be.
The basis on which democracy was laid was Dialogue, Dialogue, Dialogue. If you cannot convince then you may be in the wrong, but don’t use us as a diversionary tool every time you have need for one. Your attempt at the childish “Y tu mas” when you have no other arguments does not convince anyone.
What historic title olisipo?
Stupidity layered upon stupidity by the Spanish ‘authorities’. This will end up with some poor sod being killed, because of the totaly inept, corrupt, and moronic politicians in Madrid.
@ Iestyn ap Robert
The historic title of Art. 10 of Utrecht, which did not cede to Britain but the waters inside the old port. According to Britain’s Advocate General Sir Herbert Jenner, the territorial waters “beyond the limits of the port are not amenable to British jurisdiction”.
@ Inthename. So, sorry, I don’t understand your reasoning. British complaints about Rota?
@olisipo The Treaty of Utrecht does not mention waters at all. It does not cede them, but nor does it deny them. Anyway, territorial waters are a very modern concept, the first multilateral treaties covering the sea were signed in 1958. Gibraltar clearly has a right to territorial waters and Jenner’s opinion is irrelevant in the face of this.
‘No maritime delimitation between 2 states whose coasts are adjacent or opposite each other may be taken unilaterally by either one of these states.’ ICJ Case Concerning Gulf of Maine, 1984, para 83
If you want old treaties, the Cartagena Agreement of 1907 recognises the rights of the British crown ‘over its insular and maritime possessions in those regions’ – Gibraltar. Warships in the harbour and in the bay.
@ Iestyn ap Robert.
I see. When Britain’s Advocate General, asked by HMG to elaborate a deep report on the legal status of Gibraltar, says what you don’t like, this is “irrelevant”.
I suggest you to read art. 15 of UNCLOS about the territorial waters in “adjoining areas” and what it says about the survival of “historic titles” previous to the signing of UNCLOS.
Even that tiny dictator, General Francisco Franco, the ultimate exponent of Spanish nationalism, laid down a system of buoys along the meridian dividing The Bay of Gibraltar so that British warships would not venture onto the Spanish side of the bay. It is this same line that aircraft must follow in order to land in Gibraltar making it far more hazardous.
Now, if our “dear little friend” accepted this all those years ago, why does there have to be a dispute now?
As an aside, why are the most “successful” dictators so small?
@ Britbob You know perfectly well what many legal experts say about that ICJ ruling, which has been ignored by the United States and Canada in issues as the Machias Island.
As for the Cartagena agreements, they were systematically violated by Britain. Read Sebastian Balfour and Paul Preston in “Spain and the Great Powers in the Twentieth Century”, Rutledge, London 1999. It would be funny if not was so cheeky to invoke them.
Old horses and new tricks…
#fascistspain you are welcome in the 21st century anytime soon… idiots. #downwiththefacists #powertothepeople
Historic Title,
‘If the claimant State exercises sovereignty as over internal waters, the area claimed would be internal waters, and if the sovereignty exercised was sovereignty over the territorial sea the area would be territorial sea. For instance, IF THE CLAIMANT STATE ALLOWED INNOCENT PASSAGE OF FOREIGN SHIPS THROUGH WATERS CLAIMED IT COULD NOT ACQUIRE AN HISTORIC TITLE TO THESE WATERS AS INTERNAL WATERS, ONLY AS TERRITORIAL SEA.’
International Law Commission Yearbook 1962, para 164
UNCLOS Is not applied to the waters surrounding Gibraltar, because Gibraltar must be decolonized according with previous UN resolutions.
@ Britbob
Who is talking about innocent passage? It has nothing to do with the fact that according the Treaty of Utrecht Britain did not get but the waters inside the old port of Gibraltar. Please read the entire legal study on this issue of Sir Herbert Jensen (National Archives, PRO, CO 91-93). This historic title is exactly what art. 15 of UNCLOS speaks about.
I don’t wish to be unpolite, but it looks that you are very, very lost in this issue.
Gibraltar is not a nation, it is never going to become a nation, it does not have territorial waters and sooner or later it will be handed back to Spain.
Does anybody know where I can buy tickets for the handover? Any website up and running?
I wish you all a good weekend!
Ciudadanos
You once tried to argue logically but lately you are coming up with very flippant remarks.
The only tickets I can buy you is for the next GFA match.
By the way, have you read the news that the King of Spain(in capital letters of course, as a sign of respect) might have been involved in the failed 23F coup.
Of course, this is denied by Zarzuela. He might have gone hunting elephants with his female consort while being the president of Spain’s WWF but to actually being involved in a coup, God forbid!
I often wonder how he really broke his hip!
Don Quijote, keep on dreaming as I really feel for you.
@Iestyn ap Robert
As usual you’re completely missing the point. Of course, the UK is both a State and the Administering Power for its colony of Gibraltar. At no point did I remotely suggest that UNCLOS does not apply to the UK or any other State or part thereof.
However, Gibraltar is not part of the State of the UK, neither is it an independent State. It is therefore beside the point to speak of the colony of Gibraltar as if it were part of the UK or independent of the UK. It is a non-self-governing territory that the UN has mandated the UK must decolonise.
It follows from the foregoing that Resolution III of the Third United Nations Conference on the Law of the Sea does not apply to the Colony of Gibraltar.
@Iestyn ap Robert
The fact remains that the European Court of Justice has dismissed two separate challenges by the UK to the establishment of the Spanish administered nature site that covers the entirety of the so called British Gibraltar Territorial Waters which were unilaterally declared by the UK.
This is an outcome which significantly supports Spain’s long standing position on the sovereignty dispute with the UK over the Bay of Algeciras.
International law is quite clear, when shipping is given innocent passage through an area of sea a state cannot claim historical title to the waters but can only claim them as territorial sea. In that respect, when shared, they can only be delimited ‘with consent’ and Spain’s UNCLOS statements and declarations are irrelevant.
@olisipo. Herbert Jenner died in 1852. There was no law of the sea at that time, the first UNCLOS treaty was not signed until over 100 years later!
@FurtherBeyond. According to UNCLOS, all maritime territories, whether they are states or not have a right to territorial sea. There is no such thing as a “dry” coast under UNCLOS. The UK is the relevant authority for Gibraltar in that respect and has properly and legally claimed waters for Gibraltar.
The ECJ has dismissed one challenge and one appeal to have an particular EU directive partially annulled, nothing more and nothing less. The ECJ has never considered whether the waters around Gibraltar are British or Spanish. And lets not forget that the EU accepted a British SCI for those waters well before it accepted the Spanish one.
@ lestyn ap Robert
Wrong, sir. The notion and the international use of territorial waters precedes almost a century the legal study by Jenner. It proves how relevant is this text, asked to him by HMG, which when received it tried to coerce him to redraw it in a different way. After two years, he presented the same conclusions. A courageous man, indeed.
@ Britbob
Article 15 of UNCLOS is not a Spanish “statement and declaration”, but part of a binding United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. Still at loss?
Olisipo, yes, the international conventions and thus law did develop over time, but what you fail to grasp Gibraltar’s right to territorial sea from the latest UNCLOS treaty and anything before that is thus interesting, but irrelevant.
I wonder what UNCLOS/CONVEMAR would say in the case of Morocco v Spain re the “black gold” deposits being claimed by both parties in the waters off the Canary Islands AND Morocco. I hear the inhabitants of the Canary Islands are very unhappy that any of the parties should succumb to the “black gold” rush and contaminate the otherwise crystalline waters of those seas with oil slicks therefore destroying its primordial touristic allure. I understand there are already Spanish oil rigs in the place. Any excuse that Morocco did not exist and is therefore a non claimant to waters of its jurisdiction is not valid in this case, as the UNCLOS/CONVEMAR overrides any pre agreements/treaties, as it does in the case of Gibraltar. IN any case I would invite, in the claim Morocco has on the Spanish enclaves of Ceuta, Melilla, the Canary Islands etc., on and off the African continent, to look at ancient maps of the area where all these territories came under the Fez sultans umbrella, present day Morocco. Could this be why the King of Spain said he was not interested in the claim to Gibraltar some years back?
@ Iestyn ap Robert
Wrong again, sir. Article 15 of UNCLOS says that any “historic title” coming from treaties signed before 1982 in cases like this one about adjoining coasts are of foremost importance.
I am Sorry for reiterating my previous comentary, but UNCLOS can not be applied to the waters surrounding Gibraltar.
What historic title, what treaty olisipo?
Olisipo and Anselmo and Bruji
Repeating something does not make it true, or make it come true as if by magic. All it does is create confusion.
UNCLOS clearly states that it supersedes any other treaty, agreement, or arrangement prior to its signing. Spain signed and any note it added is superfluous. All you have to ask yourself is this. Why does Spain not agree to take this to court?” And you have your answer. The United Kingdom and Gibraltar are willing to do so, but not Spain. Curious isn’t it? Maybe because it does not want to end up with egg on its face and be made to look ridiculous, so while the confusion remains within their own people, the game can continue. The problem is that one of these days someone will get hurt with these games. We care. Does Spain care?
Olisipo
Yes, Treaties signed before 1982 – like Utrecht. When did Utrecht state Spanish waters. Historic title is merely another way of ‘considering’ whether to apply delimiting.
‘The problem inherent with the Spanish Utrecht argument is that in the 18th century inclusion of the waters was implicit in any treaty over land. If Spain had intended to exclude the waters, then legally they were obliged to mention that in the treaty and didn’t.’ – Jesus Verdu, law professor, University of Cadiz.
Spanish Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo implied that ‘he was not sure in legal challenge of Gibraltar’s waters,’ Quoted by MercoPress 13 December 2013.
Spain’s case is particularly weak.
Gibraltar is not Spain….Catalunya is not Spain…… accept the fact, your fascist days are over and sooner or later the Spanish undemocratic nation will realise and fall…. two million people march in Catalunya march for independence…sooner or later Spain will fall…. over 98% of a population vote to remain British. I think the fascists on here all actually realise…..sooner or later Spain will fall …. i dont see them recovering from this. You dont see clear indepemdence marches like this and carry on much longer. #fallingapartattheseams the only ones in denial are the fascist…your days are number.
Catalonia is not Spain, is a part of Spain.
Not all people who do not think exactly like you are fascist.
Do You Know the meaning of the word “fascist”?
@Fabregas
Are you implying that a vote has taken place in Cataluña with a result of 98% of the population wanting to remain British? Oriol Junqueras won’t be too happy ! As the leader of ERC ( Esquerra Republicana de Cataluña ) with a plan to turn Cataluña into a “Pol Pot” style communist work camp, the idea of the Catalan people wanting to remain part of one the oldest European democracies, must have made him feel sick.
Gibraltarian political leaders of all parties are “saints” when compared to the political commissars of ERC.
@ Iestyn ap Robert
Any reading comprehension difficulties? You are putting the same question once and again in spite of being answered.
@ Britbob
Try to read the lengthy legal paper of Sir Herbert Jensen about the lack of territorial waters of Gibraltar outside its old port. You can find it in your National Archives. Its address is Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU.
You have to laugh at the persistence! Anything appertaining to control of waters before UNCLOS is invalid. It says so in black and white if you care to read it carefully. How many times do we have to repeat to you that the only laws reference jurisdiction of territorial seas to which any country has to keep to are those in UNCLOS, including Spain? You may continue with your infantile tantrums till eternity if that makes you happy but that wont get you the toy you gave away and which Britain retained by Treaty 300 years ago! Step into the 21st Century once and for all!
Olisipo
Any comment made by Sir Herbert Jensen 100 years ago is irrelevant. Spain and the UK have signed UNCLOS. Gibraltar has territorial waters under the terms of UNCLOS. If Spain wants to use the ‘historical title’ argument to delimit or restrict Gibraltar’s territorial waters then Spain has to take the matter to arbitration.
Olisipo, you seem to struggle comprehending that Spain cannot possibly claim historic title to the waters around Gibraltar from a treaty which is absolutely silent with regard to waters.
@Iestyn ap Robert.
Wrong again, sir. Utrecht only ceded the port, obviously with its inner waters, without any territorial jurisdiction, as underlined by Jenner. It means “the sovereign jurisdiction that a state has over the land within its boundary limits, over its inland and TERRITORIAL WATERS”.
@ Britbob
We have discussed this issue in other forum, and I only will quote, for the sake of the readers of this one that (a) Britain has a well known record of rejecting the decisions of international courts which it does not like, as the ruling in 2004 of the European Court of Justice about the civil rights of its prisoners, which ten years after is still rejected by HMG. And (b) as a country with veto power in the Security Council it can achieve that an international ruling is disobeyed, as the United States did in 1984 with the ICJ ruling which backed Nicaragua.
One of your sources, by the way, uses to publish texts whith sentences like “Nuke Madrid”. Good for you.
Olisipo. Putting it simply, Gibraltar has territorial waters as defined by UNCLOS. The UK and Spain have both signed UNCLOS. IF Spain wants to use any ‘historic title’ argument to delimit Gibraltar’s waters it has to take the matter to arbitration.
Olisipo, Utrecht is totally silent about waters, so stop rewriting the treaty according to yor imagination. No waters were mentioned, inside or outside the port, waters were not specifically ceded and nor were they denied. Not exactly surprising as the concept of territorial waters did not exist then – not a single treaty from that era mentions territorial waters. The treaty ceding Ceuta to Spain, for example, does not even mention a port yet Spain claims waters for Ceuta under UNCLOS. Face it, Gibraltar has territorial waters under UNCLOS. Jenner’s opinion was over 100 years before the first UNCLOS treaty, it is irrelevant.
The 98% refers to Gibraltar…and yes we will be free of your colonialism sooner or later… #fallingapartattheseams. That fake democratic mask is slipping sPain…. not much longer now until the celebrations in catalunya. Gibraltar/Catalunya are not, and will not be part of Spain. Keep holding on though your passion is admirable but ours is never ending.
@ Britbob: How disingenuous of you. Spain may consider a proposal of arbitration the day when Britain gives up its nasty habit of rejecting the international decisions which it doesn’t like as the ruling of 2004 by the European Court of Human Rights about the rights of people in British prisons
olisipo
Like it or not, under the terms of UNCLOS, Gibraltar has its own territorial waters. If Spain wants to delimit these under the terms of ‘historic title’ they need to go to the ICJ or the Permanent Court of Arbitration. But you should note that in the case between Guyana & Suriname of 24 Feb 2004 the PCA stated:
Para 296 ‘Thus, Article 15 of the Convention places ‘primacy’ on the median line as the delimitation line between the territorial seas of opposite or adjacent states.’
Para 297 ‘There is no evidence before the Tribunal to suggest that some form of historic title to the territorial waters, nor are there any geographical features that the Tribunal would have to consider in delimiting the territorial sea.’
Utrecht doesn’t mention Spanish waters, so any historical title claim would get laughed out of Court.
@Iestyng ap Robert
I am not rewriting the treaty, but quoting it. It enumerates the parts of Gibraltar which were ceded, which in the matter that we are analyzing, only speaks about the port. It adds that Britain has not “any territorial jurisdiction”.
Asked by HMG to present a legal report on the status of Gibraltar, the King’s Advocate General wrote: “This Treaty [of Utrecht]… expressly withholds the right of exercising territorial jurisdiction… His Majesty, thus… possess supreme and exclusive authority… within the Town and Fortress, and the Port of Gibraltar, but beyond those Limits, he does not possess the right of sovereignty; and thar foreign ships lying in the Bay and in the Anchorage Ground beyond the limits of the port, are not amenable to British jurisdiction”.
Asked in harsh terms to rewrite this report, he answered: “I cannot change what I had the Honour of expressing to your Lordships in my former report” (National Archives, CO, 91/123). It is not a “comment”. It is a legal report asked by Britain to its King’s Advocate General.
@ Britbob Everybody has the right to his own opinions, but not his own facts. Each case is different, you know?
It looks that you still have a full-time job explaining your theories about Gibraltar in about fifty fora all over the world, including the theocratic Iranian Press TV, the Saudi Gazette and one used as source by you where anybody can read threats of nuclear attacks against Spain. I don’t share your way of choicing the places to disseminate your views, many of them repeated ad infinitum.
Olisipo, you don’t need to rewrite the treaty. It is completely silent about waters, does not cede them or deny them, so is irrelevent with respect to waters. It doesn’t make the slightest difference that the port is mentioned.
Gibraltar was ceded to be “held and enjoyed absolutely in all manner of right”.
I’m struggling to understand why you cannot grasp that a British official’s opinion does not outweigh a multilateral treaty signed and ratified by both Spain and the UK well over a 100 years later. In fact, Jenner’s opinion is completely irrelevant in the face of UNCLOS
Olisipo. You have failed to produce anything of relevance that contradicts UNCLOS and its application to Gibraltar. Spain’s ‘historic title’ argument is also pitifully weak as Utrecht doesn’t mention Spain’s waters either. Under UNCLOS demarcation lines between states is given ‘primacy’ over historic title.
@ Britbob
I am worried about you. Almost every aspect of the Suriname vs. Guyana that you have quoted as basis of the alleged “primacy” of the median line is wrong, even the date! (17 Sept. 2007, not 24 Feb. 2004). As a matter of fact, the PCA “DECIDED TO DEVIATE FROM THE MEDIAN LINE” in the maritime boundary between both countries”. With reasonings like yours, Britain’s case is lost.
@ Iestyn ap Robert.
I am struggling to understand why you cannot grasp that more than two thirds of Art. 10 contradict the first clause about “iure omnimodo”. For instance: (a) “without any territorial jurisdiction”; (b) “without any open communication by land”; (c) “no refuge or shelter shall be allowed to any Moorish ship of war”; or (d) the last clause which foresees the return to Spain. HMG has used this clause to explain that “INDEPENDENCE WOULD BE ONLY AN OPTION FOR GIBRALTAR WITH SPAIN’S CONSENT” in the despatch at the end of the Gibraltar Constitution Order 2006. Another “irrelevant comment”?
Olisipo
Your evidence is pitifully weak and lacks any substance.
(i) The Gulf of Maine case confirmed that one State cannot unilaterally delimit another’s territorial sea.
(ii)The Black Sea case confirmed that statements and declarations made have no impact on UNCLOS.
(iii)The Guyana Suriname case confirmed that the ‘median line’ has primacy over any historic title.
And UNCLOS confirms in Section (I) ‘The sovereignty of a coastal State extends beyond its land territory’ and III ‘Every State has the right to establish the breadth of its territorial sea up to a limit not exceeding 12 nautical miles.’
If Spain feels the need to delimit Gibraltar’s territorial waters then they have to ‘attempt’ this via arbitration.
Even Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo isn’t sure that a Spanish legal challenge would succeed.
Olisipo, the Treaty of Utrecht was abrogated centuries ago, but even if you believe it was not, it has been overtaken by the UN Charter and everything which flows from that anyway.
HMG wrote in the Despatch to the 2006 constitution that it was their position independence for Gibraltar was limited by Spain’s consent. The Despatch has no legal effect, it’s effectively a covering note. That was just a sop to the Spanish by the FCO, and one HMG openly acknowledged to be unacceptable to Gibraltar. It would never stand up at the ICJ anyway. The right to self determination for the Gibraltarians has never been limited by the UN.
@ Britbob and @ Iestyn ap Robert
Ha, ha, ha, ha! I expected more from you than…. that. Bye, gentlemen.
Some very messed up interpretations of democracy here….. end of the day… the colonialist days are behind for both countries amd democracy is now supported by all….and i doubt there will be any change soon to eithers borders, all except Catalunya which will finally be be given theirs back. Anyone can see that sPAINS democratic mask is slipping and its a matter of time before they show the world. I suspect it will ne shortly after the second week of november #catfight2014 #born2014
@Inthename
@BritBob
@Iestyn ap Robert
Your arguments cut both ways. Why doesn’t the UK take its case to the ICJ then?
Maybe it will have better luck with the ICJ than it has had with the UN or the European Court of Justice.
Olisipo You have failed to produce any relevant evidence that refutes the judgments already made by tribunals dealing with UNCLOS cases. This underlines the weakness of the Spanish position regarding Gibraltar’s territorial waters.
@Iestyn ap Robert
The right to self-determination for the current occupants of Gibraltar has not been accepted by the UN.
The UN has consistently confirmed that the principle of territorial integrity COMPLEMENTS and CONSTRAINS the right to self-determination in cases such as the British colony of Gibraltar. UN Resolution 1514 (XV) (1960) specifically states that ‘any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.’
The crucial UN decision with reference to Gibraltar was the adoption of UN General Assembly Resolution 2353 in December 1967 which specifically gave primacy to Spain’s claim to the restoration of its territorial integrity over Gibraltar’s claim to the right to self-determination.
UN General Assembly resolutions or decisions on Gibraltar have consistently omitted ANY reference to the Gibraltarians right to self-determination. This position is re-enforced by the United Nation’s consistent call upon Britain and Spain to settle the issue of Gibraltar’s sovereignty through bilateral negotiation that specifically excludes mention of the inhabitants of Gibraltar.
Even after the establishment in 2004 of the tripartite Forum of Dialogue, UN decisions continue to refer to the Brussels agreement as the only forum for negotiation. This agreement includes an explicit commitment requiring both Britain and Spain, and ONLY Britain and Spain, to discuss the sovereignty of Gibraltar.
The consistent reference to the Brussels agreement in all decisions and resolutions post 1984 means that the UN supports Spain’s argument that only Britain and Spain can discuss the question of Gibraltar’s sovereignty and that self-determination continues to have no bearing on the status of Gibraltar.
As recently as last year the UN Fourth Committee issued a resolution that yet again repeated its previous calls, urging both the UK and Spain to reach a definitive solution over Gibraltar, under the 1984 Brussels Declaration. This agreement expressly excludes any role for the occupants of Gibraltar in determining the sovereignty of Gibraltar.
Indeed, the latest resolution, yet again, completely ignored calls by the colony’s Chief Minister that the UN should ignore the Brussels agreement and instead recognise the colonists alleged right to self-determination.
According to the latest UK white paper on Gibraltar ‘…The British Government…supports the principle of right of self-determination, but this must be exercised in accordance with the other principles or rights in the UN Charter as well as other treaty obligations. In Gibraltar’s case, because of the Treaty of Utrecht, this means that Gibraltar could become independent only with Spanish consent’.
@BritBob
You need to look more carefully at your references. For example, you quote from UNCLOS that ‘… Every State has the right to establish the breadth of its territorial sea up to a limit not exceeding 12 nautical miles.’
The problem with your arguments, however, is the fact that Gibraltar is not a ‘State’. Neither is it part of ‘State’. References in UNCLOS to ‘States’ do not apply to Gibraltar.
This is because, according to the UN, Gibraltar is a non-self-governing territory that the UN has mandated the UK must decolonise.
The European Court of Justice has recently dismissed two separate challenges by the UK to the establishment of the Spanish administered nature site that covers the entirety of the so called British Gibraltar Territorial Waters which were unilaterally declared by the UK. This is an outcome which significantly supports Spain’s long standing position on the sovereignty dispute with the UK over the Bay of Algeciras.
If the UK believes that this is not the case then it should try its luck before the ICJ or through international arbitration.
FurtherBeyond, it’s not the UK which has a claim, so there is no need for the UK to test its claim at the ICJ.
The UN has never limited the right to self determination for the peoples of NSTGs, and this has been confirmed on several occasions by the ICJ. Only the UN can limit this right. Clearly, you have never read the Brussels Agreement, because it does not in any way limit the right to self determination for the Gibraltarians.
FurtherBeyond
The UK has signed UNCLOS in respect of Gibraltar and the rules regarding any delimitation apply in much the same way as Spain has signed UNCLOS in respect of the Canary Islands and its North African enclaves. In the Guyana -v- Suriname case it was stated by the PCA that the median line between two opposite or adjacent States takes ‘primacy’ over any ‘historical title.’
Gibraltar has territorial waters in the bay and IF Spain wants to delimit ‘what has been awarded by UNCLOS’ using ‘historic title’ THEN Spain needs to take its case to the ICJ or PCA. Simple. But in doing so, Spain must prove that ‘it is necessary by reason of historic title’ to delimit Gibraltar’s waters.
Even Spanish Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Garcia-Magallo implied that ‘he was not sure in legal challenge of Gibraltar’s waters’ quoted in MercoPress 13 Dec 2013.
@BritBob
You’re wrong once again. You really should try doing some basic research before making your outrageous pronouncements.
Unlike Gibraltar, neither the Canary Islands nor Ceuta or Melilla are listed by the UN as non-self-governing territories.
Gibraltar is a colony not a State or part of a State. According to the UN it is awaiting decolonisation by the UK and is therefore not covered by UNCLOS.
Spain has never recognised UK sovereignty over anything other than the waters of the port of Gibraltar.
This is the reason why the waters of the port are specifically excluded from the European Commission approved Spanish nature site which otherwise covers the entirety of the so called British Gibraltar Territorial Waters.
Significantly, the European Court of Justice has dismissed two separate challenges by the UK to the establishment of the Spanish administered nature site.
Spain made the following reservation on signing the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea in 1984:
‘The Spanish Government, upon signing this Convention, declares that this act cannot be interpreted as recognition of any rights or situations relating to the maritime spaces of Gibraltar which are not included in article 10 of the Treaty of Utrecht of 13 July 1713 between the Spanish and British Crowns. The Spanish Government also considers that Resolution III of the Third United Nations Conference on the Law of the Sea is not applicable in the case of the Colony of Gibraltar, which is undergoing a decolonization process in which only the relevant resolutions adopted by the United Nations General Assembly apply’.
@Iestyn ap Robert
While you may not wish to countenance reality, the fact remains that there is a dispute between the UK and Spain over sovereignty of the UK unilaterally declared ‘British Gibraltar Territorial Waters’.
Spain accepts that because of the Treaty of Utrecht, the UK has sovereignty over the waters of the port, but no further.
That’s why, on an almost daily basis, it completely ignores attempts by the UK to assert sovereignty in the Bay of Algeciras.
Given the long standing nature of the sovereignty dispute it is open for either party to seek international arbitration or adjudication by the the ICJ.
You can muse why Spain chooses not to do so, but it’s equally valid to question why the UK, as the other party to the dispute, also chooses not to do so.
FurtherBeyond. Only the ICJ or the PCA can determine UNCLOS cases. Gibraltar has been awarded territorial waters under the terms of UNCLOS just as everywhere else on planet earth. IF Spain wants to delimit what Gibraltar has been awarded under the argument of ‘historic title’ then it is up to Spain to take the matter to the ICJ or PCA but in doing so they must prove ‘why it is necessary to delimit Gibraltar’s territorial waters.’ As usual you have failed to come up with any reasonable argument.
FurtherBeyond,
Nobody denies a dispute exists between Spain and the UK with respect to Gibraltar. At the heart of the dispute is the Spanish claim to Gibraltar and subclaims to the waters and the isthmus.
The vast majority of executive action taken in British Gibraltar Territorial Waters is by British or Gibraltarian agencies. Although there are many Spanish incursions which clearly do not constitute innocent passage, there are relatively few attempts by Spanish state vessels to take executive action in BGTW and almost every one of them is thwarted.
Of course any party can start proceedings at the ICJ, but why should the UK institute proceedings? It’s not like the UK and Spain are both claimants. The UK has sovereignty and Spain is the claimant. If Spain really thinks her claim has merit, what is stopping her from instituting legal action? She has nothing to lose and everything to gain – if her case is as strong has she makes out… I think it says a lot that Spain scrupulously avoids taking her claim and subclaims any where near the relevant courts.
Oh, and just because Spain’s claim is longstanding does not make it any more valid.
Something that our Spanish neighbours and commentators seem to forget is that there was NO counterclaim to the territorial waters surrounding Gibraltar prior to the PP having landed at Moncloa. There were buoys which demarcated them and during the Franco era when he closed the frontier there was a rust bucket called Dedalo, which everyone in Gibraltar called Smokey Joe because of the amount of smoke that came out of its chimney as it sailed up and down their side of the buoys. It was a done thing, nobody questioned each other’s jurisdiction. The buoys disappeared one day, and one wonders now whether it was because Algeciras had extended their land reclamation over two miles outwards onto the Bay of Gibraltar to accommodate their new Container Port plus now storage tanks etc., and that would have made their available sea lane rather narrower than it had been previously. It was at around this time that they started to call the bay, Bay of Algeciras, although every ancient map I have come across both in French, Dutch, English and Spanish have it down as of Gibraltar. As if changing the name would make them the sole proprietors of the Bay which we all share. What makes this even more absurd is that they have no other option but to show a picture of the Rock, its iconic silhouette overpowering the Bay when promoting their Port in Algeciras precisely because it is recognized worldwide and was probably why it was so called in the first place and not of Algeciras or of La Linea. The fact that it has now been included in the Encyclopaedia Britannica does not really make any difference to its proper name. They are now mostly calling the Straits of Gibraltar, the Straits. Another misnomer.
@Iestyn ap Robert
The loud and incessant beatings from the UK and its colony in Gibraltar every time they are presented with the reality that Spain does not accept British jurisdiction in those waters belie your assertions I’m afraid.
Given the hysteria that accompanies every so called ‘incursion’ by Spain, one would expect that the UK would be keen as mustard to try to legally enforce its alleged ‘rights’ through international processes.
The fact that it studiously chooses not speaks volumes about the alleged ‘legitimacy’ of its unilateral claims.
Until the UK is able to enforce its alleged ‘rights’ through legitimate international processes, Spain will continue to completely ignore British attempts to assert jurisdiction in the Bay of Algeciras.
@FurtherBeyond
The only party acting unilaterally is Spain, and that’s after ratifying a multilateral treaty – which says a lot about Spain’s attitude towards agreements signed in the UN age…
I’d hardly call British and Gibraltarian reactions to illegal Spanish incursions hysterical. If anything they are completely the opposite, measured and appropriate.
The number of Spanish illegal incursions and attempts at executive action are a drop in the ocean compared to the number of legitimate British executive actions in BGTW. British executive actions in BGTW happen day in and day out. British rights are successfully and regularly enforced all day and every day. British sovereignty in BGTW is a fact. The sooner you get over that the better for you.
FurtherBeyond. In the 1960s, before the introduction of UNCLOS, the UK offered to go to the ICJ with Spain regarding the legal status of the Bay of Gibraltar. Spain declined to take up the offer. In signing and ratifying UNCLOS along with the UK, Spain has signed up to the Treaty. The judgments made by the ICJ regarding ‘any’ historic title’ and ‘any delimitation’ therefore apply. The chances of Spain going to the ICJ with the UK over Gibraltar’s territorial waters are ‘today’ zero. As usual, you have produced nothing factual and your comments are irrelevant.
Utrech, UNCLOS, …these treaties don’t serve. Gibraltar is Spanish and England seized it by force. Next step:
“http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=33517”
Europe Minister David Lidington said the British Government remained firmly committed to standing by Gibraltar and protecting the wishes and rights of its people.
But he said that upping the ante in the dispute with Spain could have serious negative consequences for the Rock
…
“What is happening in respect of both incursions and border checks is wrong and illegal and unacceptable, but it is not by any means as bad as what some previous administrations in Spain have done in the past in respect of Gibraltar,” Mr Lidington said.
…
And the best thing is…:
But he also highlighted that UK national interests had to be factored into the equations and that escalation would benefit no one.
“It is important that we seek to avoid a situation in which Gibraltar ends up being worse off than it is at the moment,” Mr Lidington countered.
“We went through a period, looking right back to the late 70s and early 80s, when the border was closed entirely. That would be worse for Gibraltar than the situation that we have at the moment.”
“The fact of geography means that it is relatively easy for Spain, if she were to be that maliciously intended, to squeeze Gibraltar more tightly.”
Yes, geography. Gibraltar is in…Spain and London is 1,700 miles away.
That’s all folks!…enjoy it.
Your time is over.
Espanol
Gibraltar, like everywhere else in the planet has sovereign territorial waters as per UNCLOS. IF Spain wants to use ‘historic title’ to delimit Gibraltar’s waters then Spain needs to take its case to the UN ICJ. The ICJ has already determined that sovereign waters cannot be delimited unilaterally.