Wendy WilliamsAN expat is suing his town hall after authorities withheld 12,000 euros from the sale of his house, over a license he insists he had already paid in full.
Alan Dens, 63, is adamant he paid 3,600 euros for the Licence of First Occupation, after buying the property near Coin in 2001.
But after selling the house in January last year, Dens was informed by Coin Town Hall that the money was being withheld as he had not paid for the licence.
The lions share of this was in fines.
After his lawyers served the town hall with papers demanding the return of the funds, including the original receipt, he was told that the town hall had no money.
Then he was told that, in fact, he should have paid more for the licence in the first place.
“We are absolutely disgusted with the situation,” Dens told the Olive Press. “Apparently they can get away with it.”
its this sort of stupid behaviour from town halls that causes the problems in spain . suggest his lawyer sues them for estafa …
If Mr Dens has the receipt and all the paperwork, he will win his case in court, which is where he should now go as soon as possible. Coin is a very badly run town, I have friends who have had no end of problems with the ayuntamiento there.
Fred…our lawyers have served papers and have had talks with Patronato in Malaga…. but to date nothing. Apparently it could take a long long time and be expensive furthermore, according to the lawyers one cannot claim costs from a government body etc..??..so…..??? we are not sure what next… It’s terrible really as we paid the town hall back in 2001 and even have the signed & stamped receipt from the Ayuntamiento…etc etc…but they just seem to ignore it… brushing it under the carpet hoping that we will just go away / give up…etc…
Stick with it, the time it takes is ridiculous but what option do you have? If I were you I’d start a blog and document all of your progress, and get it all over the web.
Another victim of institutional opportunistic immoral injustice and a further warning to ALL regarding the transparentless complexities of property and land ownership in Spain.
One day, maybe, just maybe, Zapatero/Rubalcaba or Rajoy will wake up to the fact that the reason the housing sector here in Spain is all but dead is solely and exclusively down to the fact that no-one, neither extranjeros nor Spanish nationals, has any confidence whatsoever in anyone connnected with property sales or the planning process.
So, Louie Lou, in Mr Dens situation would you ‘put up and shut up’ as you say the Spaniards do?. I think not.
I report weeks later that am still getting nowhere… The Coin Ayuntamiento just passes me around and then don’t reply..cut line dead etc… Really fustrating..! Lawyer is getting bored with it and also…as he is in Marbella… says he cannot keep going to Coin….so..??? The situation is really ridiculous….all because Coin cannot track down the original payment made in 2001…of which we have proof…etc..we now have to go through this…The original payment was would you believe 3,600 Euros…the rest of the retention which came out of the blue is made of fines / interest etc.. for not having paid the 3,600 €… very strange indeed… We paid IBI etc…yearly yet were never told about them not finding the initial payment …and us being fined… yet as I say..we have the copy of bank transfer and also..a signed stamped receipt from the Town hall… yet they will not acknowledge anything …did someone screw up in the Town hall? did someone pocket the money? The saga continues..!
I would be tempted to launch into the denuncia process. Your town hall refuses to acknowledge clear undisputable documentation supporting your payment and continues to harass you for monies which you do not owe. Such a denuncia would escalate the issue straight into the judicial arena. And to add a bit of strength I would present all the points you raise before a curent affairs tv programme like España Directo.
There are those of course who prefer to concede to the old practise of lying down and taking anything that the franco style bureaucracy throws at them hoping that it all goes away. But like blackmailers, they always come back for more.
lawyer states: ” Pero contestando a tu pregunta entiendo que no es viable por argumento jurídicos , en segundo lugar, la cantidad dineraria es ínfiima para iniciar un procedimiento de responsabilidad patrimonial del Estado, que en el 95 % de los casos se desestimará después de 3 a 5 años de pleitos y en tercer lugar el tiempo que debemos dedicar al asunto hace inviable dicha propuesta.”
as Brian states… maybe yes España Directo…???will look into that…..updates to follow….. !!!
I would dispute that it is not ‘viable por argumento jurídicos’.
If a buyer uses a debit card to pay for a product and the seller takes more than authorised from the buyers bank account and then refuses to make good the error, then that is theft, ‘un delito’.
If a person walks into a department store and walks off with a flat screen under his arm without paying, that is theft, ‘un delito’.
Both examples would, if placed before the guardia civil, result in the matters being presented to the instruction court for their consideration.
I see no diference between these examples and an ayuntamiento illegally taking funds from a bank account. It is theft ‘un delito’, ni más ni menos.
In second place, ‘la cantidad dineraría’ is probably not that different to that involved in a procedimiento taking place in a region a little further north where a high profile politician has (allegedly) seriously updated his wardrobe for a cost of “ni un solo peseta”. In this example the legal fraternity are falling over themselves to climb on this gravy boat. I see no difference in the gravity of the ‘delito’.
I think it is not a question of the amount of time that ‘debemos dedicar al asunto’ but that of not upsetting the local modern day ‘Landburgher Gessler’ who see’s the local peasantry living in the serfdom as an infinite source of income.
looks like it will be a long wait..? according to todays Diario Sur… “El embargo de los ingresos estatales deja a Coín sin dinero para nóminas ” in short Coin is skint… !
see
Diario Sur
I daresay many people would regard themselves as skint but that does not authorise them to nick money from bank accounts. If they did, then their assets would be seized, sold off and the proceeds used to pay the money back.
So Coín ayuntamiento has no assets??. Yeah right.
Well here we are… 10 years since we paid the licencia … 18 months since we sold the house and Coin retained the 12K euros saying it was not paid….even though proof was supplied and now some 12 months since legal papers were served to recover our money…(Nº de registro de entrada 1002647/20??10/COIN )..we have yet heard nothing from Coin… nada zero..! Justice??????? In Coin… it does not appear to exist….!
If I were you mate, I would look for a lawyer who has some idea of the difference between his ar** and his elbow.
I suppose on the other hand, you have actually sold your house (something of an achievement these days) and could count the cost of your losses as part of the price of having bought a property in a known ‘municipio de mala fama’ like Coín.
BE WARNED . SPAIN IS A CORRUPT HELLHOLE . DO NOT GO THERE , EVEN ON HOLIDAY .
I wonder if Jose Blanco is promoting any houses in Coín on his round the world tour lol. Stick with it Ad; denuncia is worth a try. If you have the proof, get them in front of a judge – you can’t lose, but it must be solid proof.
The old gypsy thought comes to mind………. If I’m outta monies I’d better take some wherever it may come from! preferrably the vulnerable & naive(foreigner). It is amazing that this kind of stuff is still happening here in Spain. Especially with certain ayuntamientos not wanting to bear the consequence of doing the right thing after making a wrong. Often it is a matter of someone not doing their job correctly and then doing everything to correct it… harrass the poor citizen to make up for the losses. Does this not embarrass Spain in the EU? I’m waiting for our awakening here in Malaga. Almost everyone I have talked feels they have been duped. There’s no free ride and I believe we’ll get our bad moment sooner or later… stress. What a way to live! Perhaps there should be an advertisement on TV of buyer beware of buying property in Spain. It might scare the government or …. maybe not.
nearly two years on…. ! We have at last come to the truth…and would you credit it.. the lawyer (P.S.Pavon of NH Abogados)..never ever paid the retention to the Town Hall…so apology to Ayuntamiento of Coin, but having said that they never ever replied to anything sent.. so that did delay matters….and with the lawyer time wasting etc..here we are now with the truth. Fraud, embezzlement etc… ! Have contacted Colegio de Abogados (waiting for reply) sent docs to national Police… and have contacted another lawyer to persue this… so…the saga continues…! Dodgy crooked lawyers in Spain, Costa del Sol…nothing new there !!! Updates as they come..!
Good Luck ad,
I used to be (not really) an “abogado con corbata” but have found my true calling and thus have changed – now I am an “Albondiga con salsa” an honorable food item with tomato sauce so much more satisfying then any abogado found in Spain will, ever be …….
All the best for 2012
it’s only taken one year 2 years…. (25 months to be exact…) and have at last received an email for the Colegio de Abogados stating that they are investigating the claim and are looking into NH Abogados / Pablo Sanchez and the fraudulent actions…. etc… What the outcome will be..??? The national Police are also on the case…. Mor updates if & when to follow…