James BryceA GROUP of British homeowners fighting to have their homes legalized are suing the Junta’s Minister for Public Works for discrimination.
They are calling for Josefina Cruz to resign after she made offensive comments in Parliament.
Referring to the problems of expats who own illegal homes in Almeria, the minister said: “They are a group of people who are not of this country – who have settled here illegally in our territory.”
She continued: “The affected residents – whether they are in an organisation or not, whether they bought in good faith, or not, – are now demanding that we resolve a problem that they are responsible for creating.”
Backed by resident association AUAN (Abusos Urbanisticos Almanzora – No), the 12 homeowners have now lodged a criminal complaint with Andalucia’s High Court of Justice.
According to the group – who all have illegal homes in Almanzora – her address on March 9 is a crime under article 510.2 of the Penal Code.
President of AUAN, Maura Hillen, referred to the speech as “seriously offensive to many people of another country”.
She added: “These people are victims of the chaotic planning system in Andalucia, which has clearly failed and continues to fail.
“They invested all of their life savings in a house in Spain, having being assured that they had all legal permits, only to find that they risk losing their home.
“These comments were not issued by just anybody, but by a member of the regional government. In fact, the person charged with resolving the urban planning mess in that region.”
She concluded: “This is playing with too many peoples lives. We have to draw a line somewhere. If I was the Minister, I would resign”.
Unfortunately this woman is all to representative of far too many Spanish – their sheer cowardice in being unable in any way to confront this corruption that is an integral part of their nature.
Just look at what she said – if she was in inmate In a mental hospital, she would have to be described as totally dysfunctional – WHETHER THEY BOUGHT IN GOOD FAITH OR NOT – ARE NOW DEMANDING THAT WE RESOLVE A PROBLEM THAT THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR CREATING.
If in the UK we had politicians with anything resembling real balls – they would be making an offer which the Spanish could’nt refuse.
Josefina Cruz is a woman of NO substance, her views and
opinions are laughable and from the golden Spanish age
of ignorance and fear.
Illegal builds by Spanish people go unpunished all round
Andalucia,it truly is ONE LAW FOR THEM AND ONE LAW FOR US.
Rife corruption has destroyed any credibility the Spanish planning system ever had.
This racism is hard to understand as the Brits,Irish,Dutch
and Germans have invested their money and lives in Spain.
This group of people come from a countries when very soon its Taxpayers will be assisting her country with a bailout and this foreigners money might keep her and other third rate Spanish ministers in cushy jobs.
Good luck to the Almanzora Residents!
Of course none of these British expats ever had anything negative to say about the foreigners who are “invading” Britain. Change a few words and you get the xenophobia of opportunistic politicians in a good many countries.
Well Chris, at least in the UK people, of whatever nationality, are protected when they buy something in good faith. Not so in Spain. Spain can’t even uphold the rights of its own citizens, let alone EU or other nationals.
Chris what stupid comments you make. Are immigrants to Britain buying illegally constructed properties after being told everything is kosher by laywers/builders and town hall officials – of course not. Neither are Brits working for pennies to deprive Brits of jobs at a decent rate of pay.
Just waht are the reasons for your inane and inaccurate post – do tell us.
It seems that Josefina Cruz has used the last resort in setting out the battle demarcation lines – possibly her statements are a true representation of what the spanish really feel about their foreign neighbours living on their ‘territory’, although I hope not. Josefina Cruz has gone Plus ultra than necessary – she badly represents women/in power and she has given all foreign property owners in Spain something serious to think about and of course, wait until the UK papers get a hold of this one.
Resorting to racist insults is weakness and it appears that in using them that Josefina is clearly exhausted with her reponsibilties of which so many people now depend on constructive and sane thinking in order to resolve such a huge crisis in the spanish property and land ownership (foreign or otherwise).
Of course the comments made by this Josefina Cruz are a disgrace not only to her political leanings but also to her country.
But, you only have to watch Spanish TV for a while to realise that it is not just the ex pats who suffer from the astonishing incomptence of central, regional and local planning procedures, not to mention a level of corruption which has not declined over the years.
Almost every night on ‘España Directo’ there are reports of spanish nationals losing their homes for much the same reasons. Local corruption, swindlers, corrupt lawyers/constructors/real estate agents. You name it.
What suprises me even more is that prime misister Zapatero is still scratching his head wondering why the construction and real estate sectors are all but dead.
Is it rocket science???
Gusano and Stuart: Xenophobia takes many forms and sometimes it is directed against those who enter as cheap labor to “steal jobs” and sometimes it is directed against those who enter as (relatively) wealthy incomers to exploit the financial distress of the locals while looking down upon them and complaining about everything. Been to Scotland lately? Know how much they love the “Sassenaich” who buy homes there?
My parents retired from New York to the southern US for the low taxes and milder weather, but for the first years all they did was grouse about how ignorant and corrupt the locals were. You lot sound a lot like them. Were you forced to relocate to Spain? Are you being forced to stay?
My purpose, Stuart, was to point out the irony of people who may be racist themselves crying racism when it’s directed at them.
You read too much Daily Mail Chris, if you think the whole of Scotland is ganging up against the Sassenach. And yes, I have been to Scotland lately. You could not be more out of touch (much like the Daily Mail).
The fact is, no matter what nationality you are, if you buy a property in the UK in good faith, you have the protection of the law. That is very evidently not the case in Spain. I was not forced to relocate to Spain and I am not forced to stay here – but that in itself does not change the facts.
Chris, you are confusing a persons quite perfect right to complain about issues in their adopted country, where they have a legal right to live (unlike you in the USA, who has no right to live in Spain) and xenophobia. It is not racist to call a person ignorant. It is not racist to call a country corrupt.
Your parents were making quite valid comments. It’s a pity you didn’t listen and learn more from them Chris. lol.
guirizano,
last post by Chris exposes his thinking very clearly – He’s actually talking about his Yankee parents NOT the Brits and other foreigners who paid way over the top for their crap built houses in Spain – taking advantage of the locals LOL – you moron Chris, it was the other way around.
Indeed workers from poverty stricken countries do ‘steal jobs’ in more prosperous countries and how does this happen with the complete connivance of the elites of these countries who are the only ones to gain financially.
When I worked in the Netherlands in 79/80 I was left with the impression that 90% of the Dutch were racists – not true, they just saw their small country overrun by third world people who would or were forced to work for much less than Dutch nationals. Exactly the same thing has happened in the UK – only the rich scum have benefitted from this enormous influx.
Not a lot of profit for the the elites in the UK and Spain to get their own lazy people to work, keep out the illegals and help them in their own countries – much less profit that way.
What stupid assumptions you make Chris about why many came to Spain. I came with the intention of building alt. energy houses – impossible – saw the corruption and left. Others came to spend the twilight of their lives in the sun – benefitting the local economies. Some came with young families – all any of us encountered was a people who have a medieval mind set and for whom corruption and stupidity is their normal way of life.
Why do you defend the Spanish – what’s your angle, because you quite obviously have one, either that you go around with your head firmly impacted up your rectum.
Gusano: I can honestly say that I never read the Daily Mail, but I have been to Scotland and have observed that the hostility toward the English there is much more severe and evident than in similar situations. I’ve also spent considerable time in Ireland, another Celtic country that “hates the English” but never saw anything close to what the Scots seem to harbor. Same for the attitude of the Dutch and Poles towards the Germans, or Latin Americans toward the US: negative, sure, but not all over bumper stickers and tea towels. No, of course it’s not the whole of Scotland. So why all the comments that seem to condemn the whole of Spain? See Stuart Crawford’s characterization of their “medievel mindset”, “corruption” and “stupidity”. And if the entire country is so terrible and backwards, why stay there? Lots of expat Brits live in sunny Florida and California, which allegedly have clean, noncorrupt, intelligent 21st century Anglo-Saxon ways of doing things.
Fred: after 20+ years, my parents remain among the “rednecks” of South Carolina and have quieted down considerably, especially now that my sister lives near them and their grandchildren have southern accents.
Stuart: glad you got out of the hell on earth known as Spain. What country has the honor of claiming you as a resident these days?
Let’s not forget that Britain, the Netherlands, the US and many other first world countries enriched themselves at the expense of those third world places now “overrunning” them, and to a large entent still do, though, as you correctly point out, the wealth is largely transferred to the already wealthy. So why blame the other victims, i.e. those who immigrate from poverty-stricken economies because it’s their only option?
I don’t defend “the Spanish”–why do you lump them all together? This Josefina Cruz is an opportunistic politician who’s being a racist in lumping all Brits together and I was merely pointing out the similarity between her and those like her in other countries with xenophobic politics.
Chris,
we shall have to call you Teflon man why – I include all parts of Spain in my comments because I have lived in two completely different areas, travelled through most of Spain, know people from all over Spain and any idiot can read about the corruption that happens ALL OVER SPAIN – why can’t you – oh I forgot it does’nt suit your argument.
You Americans have been quite happy to employ Central and South American illegals as cheap labour just like the Spanish during the construction boom. Now America is being buried by debt and the rich have exported so much of American industry to the far east, it’s now time to turn on those nasty illegals.
You need to visit Plasticland and see how the illegal workers exist in worse conditions than they would back in their own countries – but surprise, surprise you don’t mention this.
The third world peoples and East Europeans only make their way into western Europe because they know there are unscrupulous employers who will give them work.
Why don’t you start attacking the elites (starting with Americans) who refuse to give real aid to the third world countries, again for some mysterious reason this does’nt suit your arguments.
There are parts of the UK/Netherlands/Germany and France that are completely alien. I was reading about an area of SW London where the Polish immigrants refuse to speak English, refuse to eat English food, in fact they behave as if this part of London is Polish – it is not xenophobic for the indigenous population to feel outraged that this is happening. I saw all this in 79/80 when I lived in Rotterdam.
If you want a multi-cultural society where the indigenous people are a minority good you have it but don’t you try and force it on those of us who don’t.
I wpould never have entertained living in one of the self imposed expat ghettos and who was it that allowed this to happen – yes that’s right – the Spanish. You need to visit Germany/Netherlands or the UK to see how they do exactly the same in other countries.
In fact I can’t see what point you are trying to make and Fred has made a very good point, as an American you have no legal right to live in Spain or tyhe EC except on very restricted work contracts – are you an illegal?
Stuart: I never denied there was corruption in Spain. I merely wondered why, if you think the entire country is so incredibly irredeemable, you remain. Racism is smearing an entire group without differentiating.
There have always been people in the US who have opposed the “invasion” by Latin Americans–usually the same people who think Uncle Sam has the right to invade Latin America whenever it’s convenient. And yes, the ugliness gets worse when the economy’a bad and someone (powerless) is needed to blame.
Where exactly is Plasticland? California? I’ve never heard of it.
Maybe third world peoples and Eastern Europeans make their way into western Europe because economic conditions at home are such as to make it impossible to live if they stay put. Most migrants are economic. BTW, aren’t many Eastern European countries (like Poland) now in the EU and don’t they have the same legal right to live in Britain as you have to live in Spain?
You don’t know anything about me, or you’d know that I’ve said exactly what you’re saying about real aid to the third world. To the letter. “You don’t want them here? Make it so they can live in their own countries.” And you’re absolutely right that the US elites lead the rest of them and call the global economic shots that have created so much poverty. People who could have lived as peasant farmers 20 years ago cannot today and so swell the cities and then flock to wealthier countries.
Now, how do you suppose the author of what you read about Poles in London determined that they all refuse to eat English food? Did he follow each and every one of them around? It sounds to me like he’s exaggerating a bit for effect.
We have many such enclaves in the US; in fact, my grandparents lived in one. They exist for many groups and nobody gets to excited about them (though now some are upset about places that look like Latin America) and they often become tourist attractions, like Chinatown or Little Italy. People actually travel to these areas for foods and other goods they can’t get elsewhere or just for the “exotic” atmosphere.
Nobody in the States get too upset about Poles today–they’re white, after all, but 75-100 years ago it was a very different story and they were accused of stealing jobs, being unable to assimilate, etc. But they did assimilate. And that’s true for so many other groups as well. I find it sadly amusing today to see people with Slavic, Italian or Irish names railing against the Latinos, using almsot exactly the same words flung at their forebears.
Are Anglo-Saxons really indigenous to England? If my shallow understanding of English history serves, they invaded from what is today Germany and Denmark and ignored/destroyed the culture of the Romanized Celts, wha had themselves invaded during the Iron (Bronze?) Age, etc. And didn’t the French drop in for a while, refusing to assimilate–or even speak English–and changing the culture and the language?
I have visited Germany, the Netherlands and even the UK and have noticed the immigrant communities there. Do these countries really feel threatened? And, again, didn’t all three invade other parts of the world and carve out little enclaves meant to look like home? Didn’t they try very intentionally to eradicate the “indigenous” culture and replace it with their own?
I don’t live in Spain. I live in Long Island, NY and just to the east of me are several “Spanish” towns. I’m pretty sure if I were wealthy enough and didn’t have to work, I could live in Spain legally. My point was that bashing that entire country is just as racist as the comments made by that government official.
Now we come to it – you don’t live in Spain at all, I thought so from many of your ridiculous views.
About Spain you are talkimng theoretically, I like others are talking from experience.
The Spanish are not a race at all, so your use of the racist card is pure poo.
You know little of European history, so best only to ask questions not pronounce.
2000 years ago virtually the whole of western Europe was Celtic and the Aryans were still living on the Steppes.
You live in a country that was stolen from the indigenous peoples and you European whites (which is what you are) did your best to exterminate them all, murdering over 12 million.
In reality there is no such thing as an American – ever asked one of the few indigenous people what they call themselves and their land?
You have no choice – you are multi-cultural – most Europeans would choose not to be, we want to maintain our individual identities. Why is it that so many from what is euphimistically termed ‘the new world’ are so desperate to seek out their roots – because in the USA there are no real roots.
You ask another stupid question – ‘do these countries really feel threatened by mass invasion of foreigners’, then the answer is yes. Again you are arrogantly trying i to impose your alien viewpoint on us Europeans – guess what we don’t think like Amercans – we think like Germans or Brits or French.
You don’t pay attention – I have already said I did live in Spain and left. I live happily among people who in this region of France are proud of their Celtic heritage, where most of the place names have a Celtic origin.
Quite frankly it is obvious from your final comment that you know zero about the reality of life in Spain – yes the whole of Spain is corrupt and no you also don’t realise that as a non EC person you would have no automatic right of domicile in any part of the EC.
Nozvezh vat, Stuart. So glad you found a corner of the world that suits you! Read my posting of April 16, in which I congratulate you on your escape from Spain.
I do know that people who tar entire peoples with the same brush are bigots. And all bigots claim to “speak from experience.”
It’s kind of funny that you’re defending the right of Europeans to “maintain their individual identities” while condemming the Spanish for resisting your invasion of their country. Maybe they don’t like an influx of Brits who refuse to learn the language and look down upon the natives.
If “Americans” are Europeans, you should embrace us as long-lost brothers, yes? Some Americans are interested in their roots, others could care less. There you go again, just lumping everyone together. I guess that makes it easier than actually confronting how complex things really are.
I never said I had an automatic right to live in the EU, just that if I were rich enough that I didn’t pose the threat of “stealing” a job, it wouldn’t be a problem.
Chris,
are you on medication – lumping everyone together – yes that is what you have done.
Invasion you idiot. Northern Europeans/Scandinavians have actually saved whole districts from total depopulation.
Looking down on the natives – is’nt that what Europeans did with the Redman.
How do you know that the Brits hav’nt learnt to speak Spanish – you hav’nt lived there – what a stupid arrogant .
Listen stupid – look at all the articles in the Olive Press and see that the whole of Spain is corrupt. What a fool you are, thankfully I have many American friends who see the world the way it is.
Chris, I absolutely agree with you. I am Spanish and I know perfectly well the level of corruption you find in our local representatives. Land has been sold and exhausted with no legal rights to do it and the problem is not easy to solve. However,josefina Cruz’s comment could be rather classified as unfortunate and mean. It is, by no means, racist to say that foreign people came here to buy a property they were not entitled to own – not because they are foreing but because the property could no be used to build illegal homes in the middle of the countryside. It is outragious that she says so, being, as she is, not only part of the problem but the source of it. But racist? I have been living in London for 3 years and I can distinguish a “racist” comment from an “disgraceful” one, having experienced them both. I suppose you just want to use this argument in favor of you cause.
Stuart…”If in the UK we had politicians with anything resembling real balls…” there aren’t ANY now – Margaret Thatcher was the last one with ANY balls! Look how UK politicians let the EU dictate immigration, budgets, taxes, ad nauseaum.
A shame… UK USED to be an upstanding country. No more.
That really was very entertaining! Keep it up!
Missed the replies back in May; better late than never.
Stuart, colonists always claim they’re saving the place they’re colonizing. Yes, the Europeans did look down upon the “Redman” and more.
As an Anglophone, I’m well-acquainted with the reluctance of English speakers to learn other languages, as there’s an assumption that English is the more desirable tongue and others should learn it. I’m sure many expats do learn Spanish, but I’m willing to bet that lots don’t, especially if they perceive themselves as a burgeoning majority saving the region from depopulation.
“…the whole of Spain is corrupt”. It sounds unlikely that the entire country is just one big cesspool. Can we assume that the majority of Olive Press subscribers do not live there? Why would anyone choose to live in a place that is 100% corrupt?
lpv: Ms. Cruz seems to be focusing on the fact that the people in question are “not of this country” and “have settled illegally in our territory”. She’s not focusing on illegal construction; if she were, the nationality of those living there would be irrelevant. BTW, are there any native-born Spaniards living in illegally-constructed housing?
Margaret Thatcher (aka Ronald Reagan in a skirt): See You Next Tuesday
I was born in India and believe it or not, I went back there recently on holiday and people there had heard of the infamous Spanish land grab law – it’s that widely heard of!! They know nothing else about Spain, but they’ve heard of that. So it’s even more grotesque to hear this joke of a minister speak evilly of the expats who have been robbed by Spanish administrations. I think this approach fits some definitions of ‘rogue state’! As for how anyone in a public position could reverse the truth in this way – by criminalising the victim – any student of history will tell you that an important aspect of ill-treating some people is firstly by criminalising or dehumanising them. By doing this, people are able to salve their consciences and go on happily abusing and ill-treating their victims. They did that with black slaves for hundreds of years. Now they are doing it in Spain with the cash cows – the expats.
From: “http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_33165.shtml”
“Since being put into operation six months ago, the Junta de Andalucía’s plan to clear the stock of property has attracted a mere 20 buyers.”
20? lol. Perhaps now would be a good time for Josefina Cruz to resign?